VCR Bill

thanks chom seems I did read it right after all. Typical really to not specify what the defence needs to be.

Syd - that is indeed what is written into the Act and doesn't contradict anything said previously. What we are discussing here is how it affects airsofters in particular and their own defence by Regulation (which is courtesy of the Home Sec and can therefore be removed without recourse to Parliament).

However, even if you go for other defences you will still have the hurdle of proving your status to a retailer. Flashing a re-enactor's membership card at the counter of AirsoftGunz Ltd may not cut the mustard! It remains to be seen how this will all pan out.

Rhys - the industry is trying to wrest an acceptable robust definition from the HO but it looks like the onus has been pushed back to industry as it is a matter of self-regulation. Hence the likelihood of proven attendance at insured airsoft sites etc being the criteria.

Syd - that is indeed what is written into the Act and doesn't contradict anything said previously. What we are discussing here is how it affects airsofters in particular and their own defence by Regulation (which is courtesy of the Home Sec and can therefore be removed without recourse to Parliament).

Sorry mate, I cut and pasted it from a post in a different forum, but I thought that it might be useful for a few guys on here. An airsoft gun might be an airsoft gun but it is still a rif so the deffence should cover you, in theory.

Well, you are right of course if you qualify for the defence of reenactor

(e) the organisation and holding of historical re-enactments organised and held by persons specified or described for the purposes of this section by regulations made by the Secretary of State;

and there lies the problem. The defence of 'I dress up in WW2 gear' or 'I do WW2 airsoft and so I'm a reenactor' or 'I make films' won't satisfy any criteria of defence should HMRC impound your parcel or plod bring you before a magistrate nor will it help you buy RIFs from AirsoftGunz Ltd.

Will we still be able to buy mags?

It has been said, many times now. So to be clear the VCR Act only concerns itself with Realist Imitation Firearms - that is to say, 'looks like a real gun'. Anything else is business as usual.

Also you will be able to buy parts to repair your existing guns, so everything should be ok, buying parts & making them into full guns will be illegal so its parts to repair guns you already have.

Steve.D

I guess the thing is this...

What they want to do is get blank firers and de-acs that can be converted (and have been) off the streets. What the don't want to do is disenfranchise a substantial, law abiding and traditionally govt supporting section of society that is the Sport Shooting fraternity in all its guises. People worried about this are us, paintballers, airgun shooters, target shooters and shotgunners.

Now what you all have to understand is that legislation is a very VERY tricky thing and that just agreeing the wording and thereby the difference between wordings takes months, if not years and its never perfect. This means that there's always the potential for the problems that have in the US - you can buy an M16 in a gun shop because if it hasn't gat a bayonet lug it's not considerd a military firearm and therefore legal. Barmy, eh?

What happens with legislation is the potential for 'collateral damage'. What the shooters of the UK need to do, whatever their form of the sport is not give the govt reason to envoke an althernative interpretation of what is now the letter of the law. We need to be self regulating and squeaky clean.

It's my opinion, as is all of this post that if we were going to be transformed into criminals at midnight on 30/9/07 we'd know about it by now otherwise the govt is leaving itself open to massive lawsuits from businesses and individuals alike. There are lots of big, important QCs who sue HMG for sport and like nothing better than giving them a bl**dy nose whenever the opportunity arises. And they're quite often the huntin' shootin' fishin' brigade.

Sit tight and if you're really worried, exercise your rights and ask to see your MP. then let them burn some govt time getting you a deinfitive-when-the question-was-asked answer.

That post misses the point in so many ways HB.
The clear intention of the Government was to remove from sale anything that looks like a real firearm, guns being bad full stop. Check Hansard if you don't believe me! Nothing to do with blank firers or de-acs.
And regardless of the consequences to 'legitimate' users - they didn't care who they disenfranchised. It was only by vigorous persuasion that a few concessions were made.
Legislation of this kind is often vague relying on courts to interpret and set precedent. The element of doubt is enough for us to exercise extreme caution at this stage of the game.
Fact of the matter we will have been turned into criminals if we behave on 1st Oct as we did on 30th September!
And it's way too late to argue about it now - you should have been talking to your MP two years ago. It is now law, no questions, no going back.

So i don't know how but i sort of missed this and did'nt notice it until now, at first when i read it i thought it only concerned the buying and selling of airsoft guns but now i have got myself all worried, so i want to ask a few questions that hopefully you can answer.

right so does this afect me in the way that me being 17 and not a regular skirmisher (as i have no transport and the nearest site is about 20 miles away) mean that i can't own or go to airsoft games and sites or private land and use the guns.
or doest it just mean to buy and sell airsoft guns you have to be a member of a site to prove you are a regular airsoft skirmisher or on this database thing.

beacuse acording to the UKARA articles it says.

"You may legally keep any you own prior to the Act coming into force. The Act has no effect on skirmishing, nor has it any impact upon an individuals' ability to purchase accessories, spares, replacement parts etc. It is the sale of complete guns that is affected."

And ironfoot forums says

"Who is liable and does the new regulations affect any other aspect of Airsoft ?

The ramifications of the VCRA is only to do with the purchase of RiFs it does not involve the playing of Airsoft directly, RiFs already own by players, or spares or accessories."

so does this mean its ok for me to still play at games sites and on private land or do you have to be a regestered member of a site or on this database to play ?

You answered your own question DT in both the quotes you give.

Nothing has changed with regard to ownership and use (within the existing laws).

But as of 1st Oct you won't legally be able to buy and sell airsoft guns as you are under 18. When you are over 18 you will have to prove that you are a skirmisher (not a collector) to buy and sell your guns.

So I don't know how but I sort of missed this and did'nt notice it until now, at first when I read it I thought it only concerned the buying and selling of airsoft guns but now I have got myself all worried, so I want to ask a few questions that hopefully you can answer.

right so does this effect me in the way that me being 17 and not a regular skirmisher (as I have no transport and the nearest site is about 20 miles away) mean that I can't own or go to airsoft games and sites or private land and use the guns.

No , although softing on Private land is not advised

or doest it just mean to buy and sell airsoft guns you have to be a member of a site to prove you are a regular airsoft skirmisher or on this database thing.

Yes , and also over 18

beacuse acording to the UKARA articles it says.

"You may legally keep any you own prior to the Act coming into force. The Act has no effect on skirmishing, nor has it any impact upon an individuals' ability to purchase accessories, spares, replacement parts etc. It is the sale of complete guns that is affected."

And ironfoot forums says

"Who is liable and does the new regulations affect any other aspect of Airsoft ?

The ramifications of the VCRA is only to do with the purchase of RiFs it does not involve the playing of Airsoft directly, RiFs already own by players, or spares or accessories."

so does this mean its ok for me to still play at games sites and on private land or do you have to be a regestered member of a site or on this database to play ?

No just ot buy not play

Oh cool thats ok then as long as i can still play and own a gun thats fine with me its still ok to buy magazines and accesories i understand, as long as i can come to CIA games im happy thats why i got one in the first place lol.

So all in all, IF and WHEN a sort of national database is sorted out, things will certainly smooth out? If you were to want to do a second hand sale, you could call up the register and make sure that the person in indeed registered before sale,... or find yourself in jail.

Humbly I welcome this kinda thing, granted the government haven't really given much thought about the preperation, but it should reduce the amount of said individuals, who aren't associated with airsoft, giving us a bad name. Only recently after attending Proteus Camp 2 said individuals shot at my car as I drove past with springers.

And if they ban it all together after seeing how the VCR bill performs, then cest la vie!

Anybody know how the reenactment community will fair with their sales of BF guns ? Is there a similar scheme going , and if so would membership of that cover a/s as well?

Airfsoft, BF....don't matter, it's what it looks like that counts.

Airfsoft, BF....don't matter, it's what it looks like that counts.

Yes I know that , what I'm thinking is would being a member of a reenactment group qualify you to buy A/S guns or not ? Ie might be easier to qualify as a reeanctor than as a regular skirmisher .

In the eyes of the VCR Act there is no difference between an Airsoft gun, a non-firing replica or a PFC firing modelgun - they are all "Realistic Imitation Firearms"

**edited for terrible spelling**

Meaning that an approved reenactor could buy any of the above with the same amount of legality, there is no difference.

There is also no spoon, but that's a different story.

Spoons don't worry me it's sporks you've got to wonder about .

Anyhoo , I suppose my thinking if we all registered as CiA reenactors could we use that as our specific defense against the VCR and avoid all the site skirmisher blox?

* at this point thinks maybe better to discuss this in Schloss WaffenKameraden rather than on the opne forum *